Hi everyone

We are really hoping someone out there may be able to help us. Kohl is a beautiful 9 month old german shepherd much loved by all of us.
Until about a month ago he was the perfect family pet, even temperament, awesome with the kids.
Then he started chasing his tail and does it incessantly, we have tried changing his diet, having a behavioural trainer from Dog-tech come out, taking him for two hour walks twice a day but nothing is really seeming to help.
We are really at the end of our tether as the vets say that there is nothing else we can do and that we should euthanise him.
We would REALLY like to avoid that if we could.
Does anyone out there have any suggestions?? We would really appreciate it.

Alex, Claire all the rugrats & Kohl

Hi Alex & co,

I don't think it's fair to euthanise a dog for chasing its own tail. My dog does that sometimes, but how often does Kohl chase his tail?

You might like to try smothering his tail in something unpleasant, eg. lemon juice, or any liquid you know he absolutely hates. This will hopefully wean him off his own tail.

And if that doesn't work, you may want to consider docking his tail.

If it was only a minor problem, we wouldnt even consider it. He's chasing it to the point where the kids are now scared of him, he's bitten my calf two or three times by accident.
He chases his tail in preference to having a fresh juicy bone or playing with his ball.

I wonder what made the very sudden problem. As I suggested earlier, try smothering his tail in something revolting to him...I find something very sour such as lemon juice works for my dog.

Or docking his tail. Sounds cruel and unnatural, but he does get to live and it's the best thing to do.

Hi Alex and Claire,
Jan Fennells book has some sugestions about tail chasing, in her book she says the dog is stressed, and thinks it has to be the alpha male and if the dog is not a dominant dog then it is all a bit much, a friend had this problem when a family moved in with them while house was being reparied and there 4 yr old German sheperd started to chase her tail,she felt she had to take care of the children who were staying with her and suddenly started to chase her tail.So if you havnt read might be worth a try.
Good luck Jackie and Zorro

Dont euthanise this dog. Place it for adoption with GSD rescue. Change vet for s second opinion. Sedation and other drug therapy may wirk , any one think it might be itchy or nerve damaged thats why he chases it, sensitivity to fleas etc?
If you cant handle it offer the dog to someone more expereinced. Killing the poor thing is a cop out.


Swampthing

We dont intend giving him up for adoption, and its not a matter of being an experienced owner. I have had 4 previous german sherpherds and a number of other dogs.
Thanks for your imput tho.

Scooby chases his tail when he is exceited, like when we are getting ready to take him out for a walk or a ride in the car. He also does it when he needs a walk, so I would suggest increasing your dogs exercise it might help. We have also trained Scooby to stop when we say enough.

We have had a couple of dogs through rescue that chased their tail Dudley was one of them. The reason for him was long confinement and no other stimulation. Obviously that is not the case in your guy. Another was because he had a pinched nerve at the base of his tail, when he got in certain positions he obviously hurt and he was trying to get at what was hurting it. He was given some anti-inflammatory medication (we found a slight swelling in his tail so perhaps had been injured) and that reduced his tail chasing dramatically within a couple of days.

Have you check really thoroughly for any signs of swelling or tender spots, working down from just above where his tail attaches and down towards the curl to see if he reacts to pressure. At 9 months he is still growing and I certainly wouldn't euthanise him for doing it. If it was my dog I would have a spine xray taken to check his growing is coming on properly and his joint spaces are not compressed, ie. rule out a structural reason. Do you know of his background, whether his parents were hip scored and what their results were. As it has suddenly started there has to be a logical reason if boredome, confinement are not a factor and it certainly sounds like those two reasons are ruled out.

Another thought is have you checked his anal glands, that he is not impacted and painful.

Sometimes adolescent dogs suddenly do this and just as suddenly as they start they stop My concern would rise if he starts attacking his tail and injuring himself. Has it got that bad. Antianxiety medications are prescribed in compulsive long term tail chasing.

I also meant to ask how you react when he does this behaviour. The more attention he gets when he does it, whether negative or positive, it is still attention, the harder it will be to stop it.

Does he know the down command or sit command. Just a thought but if he does know those commands when you see him start to chase his tail get him to either 'down' or 'sit' and praise like heck for THAT behaviour.

Worth a try perhaps, if he doesn't know down or sit, a good reason to start teaching him. Give him something else to think about. It is very hard for a dog to chase it's tail in the down position.

I'm sorry I can't think of anything to add to the above as a solution, Alex and Claire. I do hope you get on top of the problem, though. I've picked up on Denise's comment about what sort of attention Kohl gets when he chases his tail. Dudley will stop if I say "enough" and clap my hands, but if no-one is around, he still chases his tail, so with him it isn't necessarily an attention-seeking behaviour.

In fact, Dudley still chases his tail a lot (we adopted him in February this year). I think I've just accepted that that is "what he does", but I agree, with children around it makes it more stressful (we have a newly-walking 1-year-old that Dudley quite obliviously "walks over" or bumps into if he's otherwise distracted, e.g. cat-finding or something!). Interestingly, Dudley doesn't seem to chase his tail very much inside the house, so maybe it's to do with being outdoors and in an open space, having spent five years in the confinement of a wire crate - not quite sure how to solve that one!

I'm interested in your comment, Denise, on anti-anxiety meds - do you have a "herbal" solution and do you think it might help Dudley? Does he actually NEED help, for that matter?

Alison, Chloe and Dudley #511 aka "Spinner"!!

we have had so many people ,vets and a dog bahaviour man tell us so many things it could be.We love Kohl very much and have tried alot of ways to combat this tail chasing habit.He seems to get worse when any one of us go outside ,the children included.We have checked for a sore tail and other signs of distress. At night Kohl is allowed inside and sits on the floor beside us as if he doesn't have a problem. He is a very loving and gentle dog.We have tried ignoring him and this made him ten times worse and have tried growling him. He comes when he is called when he is in the process of chasing his tail ,he sits down and has a cuddle but as soon as you let go he is at it again.We tried giving him an anti depressant ,saint john's wart this didn't seem to help either and he is going for an hour long walk at night and in the morning.We have been told that this a common problem in german shepherds. What more can we do to help our dog????????

Thank you so much for your advice .

Hi Alex & Claire

I am in no way an experienced dog owner, nor do I know it all but here are some of my thoughts:

Sounds to me from your last post that he might be having "pack status" anxiety attacks and doesn't think you are capable of looking after yourselves when going outside. I really would recommend Jan Fenell's book and really working to make him realise that it isn't his job to protect you all, that is your job and that he is the bottom of the pack.

Just my two cents worth, hope it helps.

Claire & Alex, I am not sure I would agree that this is a common thing in German Shepherds. I have had 5 and none of them have done this. Out of the 572 dogs I have rehomed I only know of 2 that have done this. If any other's have it obviously was just intermittent otherwise I no-doubt would have heard about it. Have you done internet searches on tail chasing to see what is out there that could perhaps shed light on it. St John's Wort is not exactly the type of antistress medication I would have thought would be prescribed. I would do everything I could to minimise his going outside on his own when you are there. Take him out on a lead so that if he starts it you can have control, put in the sit or whatever stops him and just make him more comfortable in being in the area where he does it most.

Thanks Denise,hes a a honey and we are going to hopefully get him out of this habit,it's sad to watch him chase and nip at his tail so often.Hes nipped my daughter a few times trying to get to his tail and i really encourage the girls friends to ring first before they come round.He doesn't bite or chase his tail when he is tied up. I have really enjoyed going through this website you and your team are fantastic.Keep up the great work.

claire and alex

Well here's my 2 cents worth. When we got Kala at 10 months she chased her tail - she'd spin around so fast she'd fall over sometimes! Then when she finally did catch her tail she'd wonder what she was supposed to do next. Kala wasn't as intense or obsessive as Kohl sounds though and eventually with a lot of "ah-ah" and hand clapping Kala got bored with her tail (although an animal behaviourist did say she was obssessive compulsive!). My instinct would be in line with just about all of what has been said but - DON'T consider euthanisia for a second - there'll be a reason for this behaviour. Definitely get another vet to check him (Brett Christian, also a homeopathic vet in Hednerson is excellent at looking at things froma different perspective) - DON'T dock him!! If this is a psychological problem docking may not fix it anyway - ever heard of phantom pain in amputees? They think the removed limb is still there and still feel pain etc. I'd probably follow the nerve problem first. Then I'd investigate the pack theory - particularly if he is worse when he's outside - what Andrea says make some sense. Has there been any sudden change in the environment - oungent smells even loud noises, unexpected bangs etc. - invesitage the stress theory - stress can manifest itself in some strange ways. Don't change too many things at once either i.e. food, meds etc. If you do come across a fix you won't be able to identify what did work. I have innumerable dog books so I'll have a look and see what I can find but definitely check the net. Trouble is if he's stressed racing around in 'never' decreasing circles is just going to stress him more - catch 22. Get back to you if I find anything in my books.

Hang in there - there'll be a fix - just need to find it fast! He's worth it - every ounce of effort!

Okay, now we are getting somewhere.
1. He does not chase his tail when he is inside.
2. He does not chase his tail when tied up
3. He does not chase his tail when you call him back to you.

4. He chases his tail when he is on his own and free.

There IS something about his tail that he is worried about. He seems to be trying to get whatever it is away from him and it is not going so hence his frenzy. Does he have an overly long tail, does he realise it is actually part of him and not some secret weapon sneaking up behind to get him. I know this sounds a ridiculous theory but given all the times he does NOT chase his tail, which if you look at the list, is more than the situations in which he does do it. The consistent thing is that the only situation in which he does chase his tail is then he is on his own and he thinks his tail is about to 'get him'.

This morning Kohl, for the first time in ages didn't chase his tail when i went outside for something, he was calm and folllowed me ,i could actually give him a cuddle without his fenzy of tail chasing. My daughters managed to get to the gate without him bowling them over or nipping their hands.I know it's early days but it's neat to see a silver lining when things have been doom and gloom with him lately.Thank you everyone for positive feedback and encouragement through our trials with Kohl.

Hi Alex, So what did you do differently this morning to have this good result? Cheers Judy & Saffy #525

hi judy and staffy,
Nothing really different letting him inside longer at night ,after we have put the kids to bed. He goes nutty when Alex is working in the garage ,completely wears himself out chasing and biting his tail,yesterday was a bad day with Kohl,we let him in last night and he was lovely. I'm going to let him inside more when Alex is at work and baby our baby is in bed.It seems to be the longer we let him in the calmer he is becoming.Alex is in the process of building him a kennel, a safe place for him to vege out.He seems to get worse when Alex is outside.He's a ratbag tho,i found a few items of clothing outside ,the rascal had pulled them out through the catdoor.It's going to be a long and slow process with Kohl, so any change be it big or small is awesome,i'd love for our children to feel confidant with him again.
cheers,Claire

Alex & Claire. German Shepherds do get stressed when they are not with their pack. They are pack animals and see the human family as their pack. The fact that he is much calmer when he is with you says a lot. There is a pecking order componenet here, Kohl is calmer when he is with you and knows you are 'being looked after by him" when he is out on his own he is reacting almost like a parent whose 2 year old child has gone missing and the stress is relieve by chasing his tail. Bit like us biting our fingernails (not that I do) when we are worried or nervous. To be blunt I fail to see why he cannot be inside with you while you are watching TV instead of outside in this blinking awful cold weather all by himself. At 9 months he is still a baby, albeit a big baby, and he just wants to be with his family. Let him be with you, establish a routine, bed time is kennel time (though mine sleep inside as I would rather they tell me the burglar is trying to get in and not find an injured dog because he got in the way of the burglar). I really think you have found the answer to his problem.
If you have not already done so please get the Jan Fennell book and help Kohl learn you are in charge and he doesn't have to get so concerned if you are not around as at present he feels he is responsible for you and is getting agitated when he cannot see that all is well. I have a strange way of looking at things at times so many may not agree, but if you put yourself in Kohl's fur, think how you may react if your children where inside without you and you were unable to get in... I bet a bit of strange behaviour would come from you in that situation....

Thanks Denise ,Kohl has been inside with me all day so far,not a hint of tail chasing ,just a huge smoocher.It is lovely to see our old Kohl returning and we have discussed keeping him inside near us to relieve the tension he gets from being outside.What a difference there is in our big boy.Kohl has grown massive in the time we have had him so we have him booked in at the vets to get xrayed,to cover all bases and make sure he is not in pain .THANK YOU SO MUCH...........
Claire &Alex

Try telling that to my mother.
But of course, Don sleeps in my room if the weather is too extreme - he slept inside yesterday night.

Alex & Claire, it's great to hear of Kohl's development. Denise sounds right to me.

More great stuff, my daughter's came home from school today and were creeping up the drive as they have been lately,wary of kohl.What they didn't realize is that he was inside with me and being wonderful.Children are so forgiving and gave him masses and masses of cuddles which is cool as he just laid there and lapped it up. They both commented on the fact that he wasn't nipping them and think it's neat that they can cuddle and kiss him without him hurting them or scaring them.Well done Kohl !

Out of curiosity Alex&Claire, where abouts are you located. I have also edited your initial post so that Kohl's picture is sitting in your message instead of people having to click on the attachment. He is a lovely looking puppy.
Excellent news on the changed behaviour. Of note also is that puppies not only go through physical changes in their growth but also 'mental' changes and there are two periods in their life which are called 'fear periods'. Here is an excerpt off the second fear period stage. Plus I also have a pdf file of the Temperament of the GSD if you wish me to send it to you privately.
Second Fear Impact Period 6 to 14 Months
This period is otherwise known as Teenage Flakiness! In large breeds this period could extend longer since it is tied to sexual maturity. Incidents may occur more than once. This is a fear of new situations and is handled with the utmost patience. The dog is encouraged to work it out on his own. If anything, it is better to ignore the whole situation than to reinforce the fear by praising the dog or petting him while he is afraid. When you "reassure" a dog with pets and "it's okay, fella", you are telling him it is okay to be frightened and you are creating a potential problem.

we are located in Haumoana, hastings. Although it looks like we may be moving soon to Waipukurau, about 50km away. Hopefully to a house with a huge section.
Would really appreciate the pdf file that you mention, our email address is alexandclaire@xnet.co.nz
He's been fantastic today, hopefully the sign of things to come.
Thanks to everybody for their help and advice.

Hi,
Maybe you could also try an Elizabethan collar which should prevent him from seeing and trying to chase his tail and hopefully would break the cycle.

Kohl gets worse before he gets better isn't that the theory?????????? Yep hes at it agagin not as much as he has been though. We had an awesome day yesterday.Been a bit of a ratbag today . Do i ignore him or do the aah aagh sound and clap my hands and say enough.I guess it's a trial and error thing see what works and what doesn't.

If you catch him doing it, put him in a down or ask for a behaviour that you DO want and praise for the good behaviour. You don't want to make a big thing about it as he will use it as attention seeking, just be calm, he tail chases, you say Kohl down (or whatever) praise when he does it, you carry on with what you are doing. (do remember to release him from the down though) It is good practice for teaching him to stay if nothing else.

Kohl is actually sitting on his tail and chewing on it from the top to the tip.He's not chewing away at the fur just clamping his teeth along to the end.We are going in later in the week to get him seen to.He is definately alot better than what he has been over the last little while.We have a two month old at home and i am only just feeling okay about kohl getting close enough to have a lick and sniff him.

How lon ghave you had Kohl? More than 2 months?? Has he always tail chased or has it started/got worse since the baby arrived?????

We got Kohl Dec last year .He has just started to chase his tail in the last month.Before that he was a happy go lucky puppy without a care or worry in the world .great with all our big kids and our cats.

And so now the baby's taking a bit of your time maybe - a few more awake hours?? I don't know - I'm clutching at straws just like everyone else but I have heard of dogs having a reaction to new babies. Might be worth paying really close attention to Kohl's chasing. He does it more when he's outside - but the baby's not (presumably) - maybe he feels part of his pack is missing and doesn't quite know how to deal with it? Does he react when the baby cries - is he reacting more when he's outside and he hears the baby cry from inside the house - dunno???

I have been reading through your posts Clair & just my thoughts here maybe he is reacting because up until 2 months ago he was the baby now he's been replaced in his eye's. You've had him from a puppy, loved & fussed over him coz thats what you do with puppy's & now a baby has come into the house who needs attention & everyone fussying over baby. If Kohl only started this recentley then my thoughts are it has something to do with baby. On a slightly different note when I have fostered a puppy (new baby) my dogs one in particular have reacted to the change. She hasn't chased her tail but she is scared of anything smaller than her & reacts accordingly.

Kohl has had an on and off day today,still coming inside alot more ,which is great.He is off to the vet tomorrow to see what could be worrying him with his tail.I'll let you know what the verdict is.Thank you all for your positive feedback and encouragement to keep on trying and not to give up.Claire and Alex

Been to the vet, he looked at his tail and noticed some swelling.He wasn't sure if kohl had done it to himself or whether it is an infection,at this stage we are giving him anti biotics and steriods to calm him down.He has ruled out psychological problems and said hopefully the meds will work. We are going back in two weeks if things haven't improved and he will be xrayed and his tail shaved a little to see what the problem could be.He may need to have the tip of his tail shortened a fraction so the skin can grow and become healthy.

Gosh has he actually bitten the end off his tail?!?! Hopefully the vet is on the right track?!? Keep us all posted eh!

he hasn't bitten the end right off,just nibbled the fur off and exposed the tip, which is irritating him to bits.it's the middle of his tail which is swollen.

So I was on the right track of his thinking his tail was out to get him - it did hurt after all.

Let us know how Kohl is gets on, glad it is physical - though sad for Kohl, now he is on the road to recovery!!

Any update on Kohl?

Kohl is still chasing his tail and it has now got a kink in it,we are back off to the vet tomorrow his tail will need to be xrayed to see what is causing his discomfort.he is loving being inside more and has become even more affectionate than ever,lets hope we can sort out whatever is going on with his tail.cheers claire & Alex.

Is the tail chasing reduced though or has it gone back with avengence again. Of course he likes being inside, he is with his pack now and feels like he belongs.

His tail chasing has reduced by heaps ,it's hard to believe how different he is now. He is still shocking when we are working outside ,but i'm confident he'll improve over time. His tail is still swollen and he is still clamping down on it hard.

If he has worried his tail to the point it is sore and swollen try washing it with Comfrey.

Scooby had a hot spot on his hip at the strat of this year and he would not leave it alone, spinning to get it, we took him to the vet and they gave him steriods and anitbiotics. the steriods made scoobs pant heaps, did nothing for the itch and his tounge turned bright red, he had 20 days worth of antibiotics to take twice a day and after a week there was no imporvment. A friend of mine suggested comfrey, so I got some leaves and seeped it in boiling water and then washed it and it was gone over night, I kid you not literally as soon as I bathed it Scooby left it alone and the spot was gone by morning. I washed a few more times and then took all the pills back to the vet and got my money back. It may sound weird but it works.

Thanks for that,he has made it bleed now and he's off to the vet again to have it xrayed and maybe the tip shortened as it's not healing.

We all had a very distressing day yesterday, we had Kohl to the vet (again) to x-ray his tail, hips and check him out completely paw to tail.
The vet phoned with very bad news and we were faced with making the toughest decision ever.
We decided to send Kohl peacefully, without him suffering and hurting himself more and more.
We are all absolutely gutted and have lost our best mate.
Thank you all for your kind words and encouragement.
Alex & Claire

Alex & Claire, I am so sorry. What did the vet find. This will be an agonising time for you and I will understand if you don't reply for a while.

I don't know quite what to say...I'm gob-smacked at your news. My thoughts and prayers are with you at this devastating time.

Alison, Chloe & Dudley #511

When you can - as Denise has said .... My thoughts are with you all.

He had a lesion in his tail compressing the nerve, causing him pain and making him try to bite his tail, on further x -ray he had other lesions in his hips - vet wasn't sure if they were cancer or some form of osteo congenital malformation.
Apparently these could not be treated with any degree of success and Kohl would have deteriorated.
The staff at the vets were fantastic, we got to say goodbye to our best mate - the kids and Claire and myself are just a mess.
We would love another GSD at some stage, maybe when we've stopped looking outside expecting Kohl to be waiting for us with his ball in his mouth.
We tried everything we could to help him and in the end the decision we had to make just sucked.

Poor baby, he did think there was a monster trying to sneak up behind and hurt him. I am so very sorry that it was something that couldn't be fixed.

It will also be good for you to know that it wasn't a behavioural thing like the vet and behaviourist first told you it was. As in my post of the 21st July I did say we had one dog who chased his tail because of a pinched nerve. Fortunately for him anti-inflammatories reduced the swelling and took the pressure off the nerve. In his case he did not have a lesion doing it, just some swelling from trauma.

You have to know you did your best for Kohl - in the long run it sounds as though you have saved him from a lot more distress. Poor baby - and he was just that, a baby. Big hugs to you all.

So sorry about your sad news. My thoughts are with you.

I am so sorry to hear your sad news - hugs to you all

Hi there, we have had many experiences with this tail chasing drama, ( 18 Plus Police pups ) and throughout our fostering we were instructed clearly not to permit this behaviour, apparently at some point in a GSD life area that tail becomes a fine chasing target, and taking into consideration that these here GSD's are fairly focused on seeking and retrieval, from our experience it is an attention or boredom getting moment, we cured this by re-directing the focus with a raggy, or any other controlled toy, by that i mean having a special toy that the pup only gets to play with when you permit, over time i have found that leaving permanent toys around create complacency with the GSD's, but if you have controlled play with a fovourite then your dog and human bond will be very rewarding, another way that we started our no tail policy was to get the pup to sit face on and gently pat the throat and indicate that this behaviour is not accepted (with kind words of course) then directly did some short lead walking


hope this helps some

Dirk

Hi There,


Just another small point here after reading some of your posts, the Pup may have a small seperation disorder syndrome starting, as you state that when some of your family are not within the immediate area the Pup gets somewhat stressed and has a confidence breakdown, we addressed this issue by making sure that our pups had their own time in the kennel and run with no human contact for a period of time every day, i know that this sounds cold and unfeeling but i believe it to be an important part of the dogs and your future development.


Dirk

oh poor baby, I'm so sorry for your loss. I can't imagine loosing Scooby, Hugs to you family.

Hi guys I just read your post on Kohl's update. How sad for you... I have been reading it with interest as my old boy is also Kohl and I hadn't seen anyone with his name before. My deepest sympathy to you and yours

Kathy